And they've whined and complained to the devs (cough alliance wardec costs cough not to mention many little nerfs here and there) when things threaten to make them play eve on normal mode again.

So why have 80% of bots moved into high sec?

The numbers are all there. High sec is simply better for earning isk than null sov space.

Bots go where the isk is, much like players. Neither of us have a problem with staying safe in null or interuptions. It has been shown that high sec combat pve will earn more in high sec so it is no shock that most bots are now found clustered in the mission hubs around jita.

Baltec, soloing L4s in hi-sec will not earn you 120 mil/hour. If you are very quick maybe you'll get 50? Now if w'ere talking about multiboxing it, different story. Anyways, I still agree about hi-sec profits overall.

As someone who runs multibox fleets sized 8-15, I can confirm hi-sec is the place to be when looking to earn max ISK/hour over a long period of time. Perhaps as a solo or dual pilot null is better; if you have 2 or more alts, hi-sec wins out.

I do everything from multibox mining to multibox missioning to multibox ganking. All always for profit.

Mining ore I can earn about 100mil ISK/hour
Missioning I can earn about 120mil ISK/hour
Ganking is hit and miss, not to mention I suck at it and lose all my ships half the time

Those mining/missioning profits can be done anytime, without any disturbance. They can be done while semi-AFK watching Youtube or reading a book.

The issue with null-sec is you cannot run fleets this size; you will be shot down too often. The ability to run absurdly large fleets in the convenience and "safety" of hi-sec is what makes the profits as large and consistent as they are.

You mean mission systems?

ESS are not widely used because they are just terrible to use. However we have used them for gathering data and high sec still works out as being better.

The other forms of combat pve in null are belt ratting which is just terrible isk/hr and gets beaten by high sec level 3s and complex running which works fine for risk/reward when compared to high secs plex running but it can only support at most 100 pilots per region, so its not great when you have tens of thousands of pilots.

This is also not imaginary, we tell our pilots to make their isk in empire.

How?

We have the numbers and none show that anoms get anywhere near what high sec level 4s can earn.

Please show us where you are finding these anoms.

The problem is that the majority of anomalies in 0.0 are never run because they're ****-tier. I'm sorry but "let's make 2-3 types of worthwhile anomalies and, to balance it out, make the rest so horrible that nobody will run them" isn't good game design.

A fully upgraded system with good truesec should support more than a few simultaneous anomaly runners. Make them more challenging, whatever, but make them worth running.

The ownership model does not affect how many people a single system can support.

This literally can't be emphasized enough.



https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4159522#post4159522

The dude has no clue about anything he talks about but, really hates us so even if we want a change that is good for the game and to our detriment, supercap/tech/FW/sovfix/drone assist, he'd be against it. Ignoring him is an anodyne for your own mental health.

E: See sig for proof highsec needs a nerf.

Such tactics may be applicable for an experienced group with deep pockets, a lot of patience and superior skill. The issue is that it necessitates that large powerblocks can be outlasted and outmaneuvered by smaller groups over a long period. We all have the jokes about how bad goons are or the CFC is, but I don't have faith that in this defenders initiative of a sov system that you lack the capacity to wreak havoc on whatever scale of warfare you desire.

Edit: This of course doesn't discount diplomacy, though diplomatic relations tend to strengthen fighting capacities over time, coalitions being a prime example, thus making it harder still for forceful entry into null.

I destroyed an ESS last week.

That depends on the definition of sov and when.

We've been running almost nonstop fleets for the last week killing sov structures in the east.

The first goon corp in Eve had something like 15 people in it. Stop trying to play Eve like a single player game and make some friends.

No, they had to deal with something far worse and much more painful: POS sov.

But that wouldn't be a sandbox, player controlled space would it then. CFC and N3/PL own most of nullsec because they conquered most of nullsec.

Its also worth pointing out that the CFC/N3 coalitions are not defined by an in game mechanic - there is no coalition mechanic, they're both made up of alliances with agreements between them. That isn't CCP's fault - the poor sov mechanics are.

You can sign up for the wonderful Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere :)

Renters

It is.

Anyone who dealt with pre Dominion sov would never say such a stupid thing as "remove timers". System timezone ping pong is beyond asinine. There is ZERO incentive to set down roots, build anything, or actually live there.

Especially not since you can make better money in highsec now.

Suggesting it is an act of pure ignorance.

This is the Infinity Ziona solution to the problems caused by her suggestions. You should be forced to recruit from all timezones, otherwise you shouldn't bother showing up to sov null.

Talk about your barrier to entry. That's inarguably worse than the current situation.

It's not "themepark" for there to be a system that allows you to actually muster a defense instead of being swept while you sleep. That's just your latest whiny talking point.

No, it's not themepark. Once again, that's just your new talking point.

What's really themepark is playing timezone ping pong. Every day you have to log in and retake the **** you lost while you were asleep.

What you want is a WoW battleground. What you want is PvP on demand, because you want it. Go back to your kiddie ride, go back to your instant gratification. Because that's not EVE.

What allows the CFC to take over the entire map is that they are BETTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE.

They've earned it.

But you don't want to earn it, you don't want to earn anything. You just want CCP to hand it to you.



I called it.

You want on demand PvP, on your terms only, sticking out your lower lip if you don't get what you want all the time.

Go back to WoW, your entitlement mindset is appropriate there.

Oh, hey Sov assets, right? Does that include POCOs this time?

I strongly doubt you can't get PvP when you are online. Prolly not the kind of PvP you want, or a 100% win situation.
Nope, CCP won't come, hold your hand and give you the keys to the Kingdom. But you can keep entertaining us.

No, that's wanting the rules changed to benefit you.

That's called entitlement.

Oh, yeah, we need to curtail one of the game's primary selling points, because teh soloh playerz don't feel like they're getting a fair shot at it.

Sov is the team game.

There are places for teh soloh playerz. But it's not sov null. Your problem is that you're trying to shoehorn your playstyle into the wrong place, and screaming "Sandbox!" at the top of your lungs whenever someone points out how stupid you are.

i don't want to comment on sov mechanics. i'm just pointing out (again) that ziona has absolutely no interest in any 'little guy', ziona just wants to be able to destroy cfc pocos without having to fight the players who own them. and is unable to consider what that change'd do to the 'little guy' who owns structures

Yeah so.

What is it to you? You couldn't defend PB if you v wanted to, the same way Unclaimed and Tribe couldn't.....if a pair of +1000 man alliances couldn't hold PB you and your ten alts damn sure couldn't.

You know the trick to PB? You need to hold our at least have standings with whomever holds Querious AND Delve our you have no way back to empire without going through 50 jumps off hostile space.

If we remove timers it will mean you will have to have a fleet on guard duty 24/7 and a large one at that. We can burn through any structure in a matter of minutes so IZ's idea would make it impossible for smaller alliances to hold anything in null. Hell it would be impossible for most of the big alliances to keep hold of anything.

You have forgotten NPC 0.0, which offers excellent opportunities, but with regard to sov 0.0 you're bang on the money.

I'm a computer type now, but I was a tech for a lot of years first, so I spend a fair amount of time at work reining in big heads that like to....erm.....over sophisticate damn near everything.

In short it would make capital movement a LOT harder if you have ever tried to get to Cobalt Edge from North or Querious from the east by jump drive its a significant venture. There are a couple way to go about it. Either spread the systems which makes it murder to do logistics, spread the regions, or reduce the jump range on combat classed capitals.

.....however, I'm loath to say that dreads need any form of a nerf, and carriers are a quality of life thing.
.....and logistics guys, FFS I'm not sure how they don't burn out to start with, many do, that is why they are so valuable.

Even then going on this premise is mostly crap anyway. Where does the little guy fit into null sec? He doesn't its not a little guy kind of place, and no amount of reducing force projection is going to change that, all that would be accomplished is that you would slow the game down. Wars would still happen just as they do now, the blob will still be the blob, it just makes pretty much EVERY factor of living in nullsec MORE ******* aggravating.

I've been out of game for about 6 weeks with a move, so today I got logged in got back to my deployed assets and got them to the staging system. Took about 25 minute of travel time, swapping a couple fleets to get on chains going the right direction and such.

I moved a grand total of 5 ships, Now considering that one was a battleship that leg between the last two jumps would have taken 10 minutes ....to go ten jumps.....and then the return lap in nub ships? That is an hour out of my day to move 5 ships. No one's Alliance is going to say "You know what, that is going to be hard to move," it doesn't happen. The alliances say, get your gear here, caps join this fleet, sub-caps find a convoy.

Nothing changes, its just MORE aggravating.

Not gonna lie. I like the pond concept. Would like to know more and hear other thoughts on it.

thoughts: if an idea involves 'let's make things difficult and tedious to try and solve a problem' it's a bad idea
if an idea involves 'let's deliberately attempt to reduce player interaction' it's a bad idea
if an idea involves 'let's reduce incentive for emergent gameplay' it's a bad idea
if your objective is 'let's try to nerf coalitions' a bad idea will result

if the source is infinity ziona it's a bad idea

...it's because the majority of the players have permitted it.

Boo hoo. Raise up an army and crush them if they bother you. The CFC is vastly outnumbered by the rest of the player population and there's plenty more whinebears where you come from.

lmao :) Thank you for your input, I printed it out and will process it the next time I need to take a crap...

You can be part of the problem or part of the solution. Evidently you prefer the former.

It's almost as if you haven't read the thread before posting, because the solution to this has already been given - raise up an army and take the space you want from whomever currently holds it. If you're not prepared to put in the effort to achieve the desired result quit whining about those who do.

I never said it would be easy. However, given how much you whine and cry, it seems to be important enough to you that it should be worth doing. I've even suggested people that you could link up with in previous posts, including someone that might fund you.

The biggest obstacles are the artificial ones you keep erecting in order to save face whilst doing nothing.

Very much this.

IZ needs to either grow a pair, or shut up for once.

Stop whining for CCP to do your work for you.

CCP needs to do it for me

I can agree to a point, but we obviously disagree at what point a degree of difficulty might be desired.

I'm not in this to change anything "for Goons" and I'm not sure why you keep bringing them up. I can completely agree that bad game mechanics should be fixed, what particular individuals may benefit from it today doesn't matter much to me.

You talk about "us vs them"
but you're the only one talking about that.

And you seem to be getting a little out of control.
Swearing and calling people names?
Maybe you need to take a break from the internet?

This is an old argument and it's flawed. Your numbers do not say what you think they are saying. The only reason there were more botters in high sec is because they could control their losses easier while afk. (btw the numbers of botters anywhere in game is greatly reduced) The profit from mining in null sec still out shines anything in high sec.. but there are fewer people in null sec who care to mine. I know people who mined exclusively in null sec.. and they were very rich. I mined in null sec for the first years of my eve life and it was profitable beyond belief...but residence in null sec is not a done deal. ...no one should know this better than you.

Wait CCP numbers are statistically flawed and wrong but, according to you they weren't wrong when they nerfed null bounties so how are they wrong about bots being mostly in highsec? I guess CCP is only wrong when they disagree with your world view. (Not when you catch them back peddling or contradicting their economist though.)

Further proof you and the rest of the pro-highsec people should be ignored.